Wowzer! A Mauser?

Early reports from newsman and authorities on November 22nd 1963 indicated that the weapon allegedly used to assassinate President Kennedy was a 7.65 German Mauser bolt action rifle. The rifle had been found by Dallas police on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, a building which overlooked the Presidential motorcade at the time of the assassination. Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade passed on this bit of information to the press with a moderate degree of certainty, and various news anchors such as Walter Cronkite presented the Mauser claim as fact to the American public.

Within a matter of hours, these initial reports were corrected, and news-hungry Americans were informed that the alleged murder weapon was actually a 6.5 Italian Mannlicher Carcano bolt action rifle with a leather strap and telescopic sight attached.  The Mannlicher Carcano was traced to the post office box of one A.J. Hiddell. A false identification card with that name had been found on the person of a suspect the Dallas Police had in custody for the murder of patrolman J.D. Tippit. This suspect, Lee Harvey Oswald, had been working in the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the shooting. The Warren Commission later confirmed that this was indeed the weapon used to assassinate the President, and that Oswald was the one who had fired it. To this day, the rifle sits in the National Archives as an important part of American history.

But what about the initial claim that the weapon found in the Depository was a 7.65 Mauser? The man who found the gun, Deputy Eugene Boone, signed a sworn affidavit claiming the weapon in question had been identified as a Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, who was present when the rifle was found, even claims to have seen “7.65 Mauser” written stamped on the murder weapon. Did the Dallas Police really find another rifle in the Texas School Book Depository, or was it simply a matter of mistaken identity? If the Dallas Police did indeed find a Mauser, what happened do it? Did someone else later plant the Carcano to implicate Oswald? Although a Mauser and a Carcano bear a superficial resemblance to each other, the only real connection is that they were both bolt action rifles used against American soldiers during World War II.

The Dallas policemen who initially inspected the murder weapon, Eugene Boone, Seymour Weitzman, Roger Craig, led by Homicide Captain Fritz, must have  quickly identified the firearm as an enemy weapon from World War II. Since most people think of Germans as the main adversary in the Second World War, not the Italians, the officers must have assumed it was of German origin, and thus a Mauser. Even though they were familiar with firearms, these men were probably not familiar with what guns were made in what country during World War II. Seen in that light, a couple of Dallas cops not knowing the difference between the different guns various soldiers of the Axis powers used during World War II seems quite plausible. In his final testimony, Boone admitted that he had had been mistaken in his initial identification of the murder weapon. The Carcano story became part of the official history.

But Roger Craig never changed his story. Some people insist he was a liar, others claim he was an American hero. Either way, he went to his grave insisting that the gun found that day on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository was unquestionably a 7.65 German Mauser. And the sad series of occurrences which led Mr. Craig to that grave is perhaps one of the most heartbreaking footnotes to the Kennedy Assassination tragedy. Craig’s refusal to change his story about the Mauser, like all the other officers had done, caused him to be ostracized by his peers. He was fired from the Dallas Police Department in 1967, apparently for discussing sensitive information with a journalist. Roger Craig never found steady work again, he lost his wife, and then began suffering a series of bizarre accidents which left him severely injured. He was shot at, driven off the side of the road, and at one point his car engine mysteriously exploded. The injuries induced by these incidents left Mr. Craig in almost constant physical pain. In 1975, Roger Craig took his own life.

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73 thoughts on “Wowzer! A Mauser?

  1. Why not a 7.63 Mauser? They saw a 7.65 Mauser and sighned their report saying they did.
    Why not a 7.90 Mauser? Why? Because they found a 7.65 Mauser. That’s what they saw.

    They did not find a Carrcano because they found a Mauser.

    There is a difference between a butter knife and a butcher knife. If they’d found a butcher knife they would have said they found a butcher knife and would not have said they found a butter knife and would not have even thought of an nother kind of knife.
    That is until pressure was brought to bear.
    And yes Craig is a hero along with Oswald in my opinion!

    jim feemster

    1. “Why not a 7.63 Mauser? They saw a 7.65 Mauser and sighned their report saying they did”

      7.63 Mauser is a type of ammunition, not a type of rifle.

      When Boone found the rifle, he was not allowed to approach the weapon, let alone inspect it. How could he have seen what the rifle said on it, let alone ascertain what country it had been manufactured in? Boone’s affidavit never claims that the rifle he found had been positively identified as a Mauser, only that it “appeared” to be. For his part, Weitzman says he only got a glance at the rifle, and was not allowed to inspect it, let alone identify its country of origin. Only when the weapon was actually inspected in detail was the country of its manufacture ever positively identified. And it was identified as Italian, a Mannlicher Carcano in fact.

      A butter knife is a tiny little knife, and a butcher knife is a very large knife. A Mannlicher Carcano, a 7.65 Mauser, and a 7.9 Mauser are all rifles, and if you just get a glance at them, you’re probably not going to be able to figure out what country they were made in. The simple fact is, Wietzman and Boone never positively identified the rifle as a Mauser, and they never claimed to have either.

      1. Craig said they were all there and one of them picked up the gun by the leather strap and saw the stamp 7.65 Mauser on the barrel. That is consistent with the way a policeman would conduct and investigation at that time. Weitzman who owned a gun store swore in and affidavit that it was a Mauser and only later changed his story. The Carrcano was never mentioned until after the police obtained a warrant to search Mrs Pain’s house where they found the Italian rifle.

        Craig told the truth. The others lied to save their skins. Craig suffered multiple assassination attempts because he refuse to lie. He also owned two pistols at the time of his death. And Yet he shot himself in the chest with a rifle? Yea right.

        Agnostic?

        How about self denial?

        How about a coward.

      2. Well of course Weizmann did, he claimed it to be a mouser,early story of him being a gun expert and owning a sporting goods store.
        Then he retracted his initial statement.
        Dan rathers report says weitzman was the one to find the gun, dan just plain SUCKS.Weitzman came alone after the discovery, said it was a mouser, then he Craig and fritz looked closer and saw the stamp on the gun.
        Unless this is just a lie what can reasonable people believe.
        And of course why or what does Craig have to gain early on(that day) by lying and maintaining that story to the end. The answer,NOTHING!
        He told the truth, he stuck to the truth and he died knowing the truth.
        Pin a metal on him and put him in a place of honer, remind his family that he did not take the easy path and tell his story to every school child and every man and women that want to defend liberty and freedom.
        As for me, I will remind my children what real courage looks like and if they forget look to a man like Roger Craig for strength, he and his truth stuck together to the (premature) end!
        God has a special place for soles like his. RIP Roger we believe!

      3. officer craig said he read the name german mauser stamped on the rifle. he said it was held up at eye level 2 feet in front of himself. he had several attacks on his life. wake the hell up. he is one witness that risked everything and lost everything, yet you denounce his testimony. you’re ignorant and have no compassion for an american hero. you say boone wasn’t allowed to look at the rifle. bullshit. you know the 4 guys present all took a look at it. the author says the police probably dentified it as an enemy weapon. what a crock of bullshit.. nobody on earth has ever referred to any rifle as an enemy rifle, unless they were in a war when they said it. some people will stretch something so far out of shape, but ignore officer craig who told everyone directly. he said he read the name off the rifle itself. are you thick or a shill?

    2. Actually, they may have found *both*. In the video from whence the still above was taken, another rifle can be seen on the floor. Check out Evidence of Revision 1, which is available at video.google.com. Although it relies heavily on Craig’s oral testimony, it is a good accounting of the murders of both JFK and Oswald.

      (Also notice how Captain Fritz, who was supposed to be Oswald’s front cover when being transported, scurries out ahead of him in order to leave his front unguarded…and then doesn’t react to Ruby’s gun being fired. If nothing else, it’s interesting. No?)

      1. I HAVE SEEN TV COVERAGE OF THE DALLAS POLICE CHECKING TWO DIFFERENT RIFLES IN THE BOOK DEPOSITORY ON THE DAY OF THE ASSASSINATION . WE WILL EVER KNOW THE TRUTH

    3. Great Point. How did they ALL know it was 7.65 unless they READ it on the barrel.
      Besides, if the name is stamped on the barrel as standard practice,
      why wouldn’t ONE cop at least, read the barrel, seeing this is a foreign rifle.
      I mean this is the murder weapon of the US President. Not one cop would
      handling it READ the barrel. IT’s hard to see newsfootage becasue I heard some
      of it is reenacted.
      BTW, on 12/3/1963 a 7.65 bullet was found in Dealey plaza, and sent

      to the FBI, where is later destoyed as not having anything to do with
      the assassination.

  2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlCswKHMuE This is a tv report that a British 303 rifle and three 303 spent shells were found in the TSBD. This was the rifle convesgated by Dallas police from Buell Fraziers house. Deputy Boone and Weitzman both state in their written reports that the rifle found on the sixth floor was a 7.65 Mauser. In their affidavits Boone changed his to, it appeared to be a mauser, Weitzman didn’t he stated it was a 7.65 Mauser. But in his W.C. testimony he stated he thought it was a Mauser action rifle ( ref. to a bolt action ) and he only got a glimps of it. There were reporters on the sixth floor with the police and every one wanted to get the scoope on every one else, they were firing reports of rumors without checking or confirming the facts. The rifle was a Carcano found on the sixth floor, the photos taken show that, when Lt. Day carried from the TSBD to the station, it was a Carcano.

    1. That rifle(carcano) check the numbers on it and then try to trace it back and you will find just like so many other strange JFK issues the Italian secrete service will not release any info on that rifle. But you may want to look at how many of those carcanos where sold to the the FBI in the late 50s and early 60 s
      Men don’t make those kinds of mistakes.
      It boils down to credibility.
      Is Craig credible(YES!)
      Is Fritz credible(No)
      Is Curry credible(NO)
      Ask fritz if he has kept more than 1 shell casing as a souvenir.
      Ask Curry if he and Ruby had a good time in Hot Springs together.
      Ask Curry if he has any more spent rounds from Dealey that day he would like to disclose. Ask Fritz if he wrote down anything Oswald said to him the FBI and the SS during those Nazi interrogations conducted without legal console.
      No it boils down to credibility.
      Oswald(1) Fritz(0) Curry(0) Craig(1)
      As far as I can tell Fritz would make a poor dog catcher, and Curry used that to his advantage.
      I can understand why people would be very afraid and why the say or do the things they do under duress, but don’t tell me about pictures or witnesses, evidence or a magic bullet in the same arena as the men I have mention here, none can be accepted or trusted their testimony is little more than childish lies fit for third grade play ground.
      Most Americans would be ashamed to know they were duped by a third grade intellect such as Fritz..
      No it’s a dog and pony show. A magic show produced with tax payer dollars created out of the theft of the the American Dream.
      So many good soles have paid the ultimate price just because they were telling or doing the right thing. It is an evil that plagues this land unlike anything seen in thousands of years, I am fearful for the future and for the generations to come, they will pay the price for our inaction and the last hope for a nation that set itself apart from the rest, under the guise of FREEDOM for all!

  3. Both Deputies Boone and Weitzman both filed reports on the next day-Saturday the 23rd that the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. Moreover,Seymore Weitzman had a degree in engineering from the Univ. of Texas and had worked part time in the family’s sporting goods store for the previous twenty years selling firearms! For a man like this to make a mistake such as this is utterly preposturous.

  4. roger craig also said that the actual finding was staged.. they had found the gun before, but “re-found” it because the first time they didnt film it..

    1. Thanks for the link John. It’s good to have a professor around, and your website was a enormous help when I was starting my JFK Research. Teachers have the unenviable task of telling their students the truth, whether they like it or not. Your position is a difficult one, because the basic, raw banality of the Kennedy crime is not nearly as exciting the lore that has been concocted to help the Orphans of Camelot cope with it. America uses JFK conspiracy lore to navigate the treacherous world that was left in the wake of the first in the terrible wave of assassinations that essentially murdered our country. Your web site, informative as it is, is a dark and scary place. It is the intellectual equivalent of being locked in a cell with Lee Oswald while someone uses enhanced interrogation techniques to get him to confess. I try to ease people into realizing that most conspiracy theories are bullshit, you my friend waste no time at all. Thanks for visiting.

    2. Mr. McAdams, Craig did not change his story at all. IN FACT, he always indicated the “finding” of the rifle was staged. He NEVER said the rifle was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. However, he did say he identified it as a Masuser there because it was on the 6th floor that he read the stamp on the rifle. If you listen to his description of finding the rifle here – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WQr4y1j4Gw – you will realize he is talking about finding the rifle that BECAME a Carcano, NOT a rifle found elsewhere on the 6th in the TSBD. Craig said he ID’ed the rifle by the stamp “right there on the barrel” but the shells were NOT 7.65 shells, but “from a 6.5 Italian Carbine.”

      It has been long forgotten – apparently – that it was reported that the alleged assassination weapon was “found” with ONE BULLET IN THE CHAMBER. This is impossible if there were three shots fired and there were three spent shells! When Lt. J.C. Day, who was the actual crime scene investigator, turned the evidence over to the FBI he reported finding TWO spent shells and one unfired bullet – “1 LIVE ROUND, 2 EMPTY SHELLS” is what Day’s report read. Was he too “mistaken???” Can it be true that a policeman cannot tell the difference between a spent shell and a live bullet?! The FBI’s notes read:
      “Q6 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge case from building
      Q7 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge case from building
      Q8 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge from rifle”

      And a photo from the FBI office substantiates the above.

      Though Boone’s report read that “the rifle appeared th (sic) be a 7.65mm Mauser…”, Seymour Weitzman’s report read, “It was a 7.65 Mauser bolt-action…”
      So “author 337” Weitzman’s written statement was was definite, not the speculative “appeared to be” used by Boone.

      The following day, November 23, Dallas D.A. Henry Wade gave a televised press conference in which he stated definitively that the rifle found was a 7.65 mm bolt-action Mauser rifle. Even later, on Nov. 25 a CIA report stated that the rifle found was a 7.65 Mauser! Are we to believe that one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing and everyone is repeating the “lies” of the crime scene officer, a decorated police officer, and the Dallas Police Captain??? Really?

      Additionally, notice that in all photos of the rifle THE AMMUNITION CLIP IS MISSING FROM THE RIFLE! Remember, without the clip the rifle could only fire ——- ONE SHOT. And a live round of ammunition was found in the rifle’s chamber. And the clip for a Mannlicher-Carcano? It holds SIX bullets, not three. But all that was “found” in the end was one bullet and three shells.

      Finally, the FIRST time we see a clip on the alleged assassination weapon is when Lt. Day is leaving the TSBD. all of which points to a switch of weapons from the strapless Mauser seen by many officers and photographed numerous times to the Mannlicher-Carcano.

      Do not attempt to make Roger Craig out to be some sort of fanfare-seeking liar, or delusional human, or another of your infamous “unreliable eyewitnesses” unless you are prepared to do so with everyone who wrote a report that day or gave a press conference the following day or who noted the type of rifle at the CIA. And as far as any “changed” testimony before the Warren Commission, we all know it is human nature to 1) bend to authority and 2) misrepresent or alter initial observations to fit a widely-held viewpoint as time passes. If your career and perhaps even life was on the line, wouldn’t you change your testimony a year later, too?

      Let’s make no mistake, Roger Craig was a decorated, highly-thought of police officer in Dallas – until he refused to back down from his story, that is. And of ALL the eyewitnesses on the 6th floor of the TSBD Nov. 22, 1963 ONLY Craig’s story is consistent with the written and oral statements regarding the exact nature of the evidence found that day.

      1. Please pay attention. The clip you posted is audio from the 1974 interview with Lincoln Carle. He is clearly describing the discovery of the rifle on the sixth floor. And he claims to have seen “7.65 Mauser” on that rifle.

        But in 1968, he discussed finding the rifle on the sixth floor, but when when the issue of a Mauser was mentioned, he said he heard one was found on the roof.

        The Alyea film indeed shows a Mannlicher-Carcano being discovered.

        As for the “clip” business, see the following:

        http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm

      2. I’m sorry my initial comment was a bit convoluted. I was in a hurry and should have re-read it before posting. Let me clarify some thoughts….

        #1 The importance of the clip I posted has nothing to do with Lincoln Carle. I was indicating two facets of Craig’s statements that are allegedly at odds: 1) that there was a Mauser found on the 6th floor of the TSBD; 2) that another rifle was found on the roof of the TSBD. These statements are independent of each other. In the newspaper article, Craig stated that a Mauser was found on the roof. In his filmed statement he stated definitively – not “claimed” as you say – that he read the stamp on the rifle identifying it as a Mauser. It is my assertion that these two statements are in dependent of each other as was the finding of the two weapons of the same make.

        #2 Alyea’s statement on Dec 19, 1963 differs from most of what has been subsequently used as “fact” concerning the nature of the search of the 6th floor of the TSBD:

        “…I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other units came in – the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight. They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search. It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400 ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there. There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr. Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were not Oswald’s. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes. I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service man said, ‘You are close enough.’ I asked the Secret Service man to take pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz – and I have footage of this – pulled the bolt back and a live round came out. They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They wouldn’t let me out of the building and they wouldn’t let anyone else in. I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch’s film of the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film out?] There’s a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L’Hoste was under the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside. One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling him, I threw the film out…..”

        Can you please point me to where you include Alyea’s account in your reporting of the TSBD scene?

        #3 Craig’s statement matches more closely with Alyea’s than others I have read.

        #4 Neither you nor any other Lone Gunman theorist has ever explained his LHO fired the shots, got any rifle to the corner diagonal to the alleged assassin’s lair, by witnesses who were on the steps that LHO had to pass on his way downstairs, and then to his position in the lunch room where he was seen by Dallas policemen.

        #5 Again, the first time anyone saw a Mannlicher-Carcano with a clip in it was the photo of Lt. Day taken EXITING the TSBD with the rifle. All you did by showing the photo again is substantiate that.

        There is more pending your reply.

  5. Regardless of who said what, the fact is that WC exhibit 139 is stamped “Made In Italy” and “Cal 6.5”.
    If WC exhibit 139 is the rifle found in the TSBD then there should have been no mistake as to the caliber of the rifle and the first reports should have stated 6.5 not 7.65.

  6. I’m a military gun collector and at a glance a Mauser and a 6.5 Mannlicher Carcano look similar because a lot of gun makers were attempting to copy the quality and reliability of a German Mauser. The American Springfield 03 is a copy of a Mauser and they were taken to court and had to pay royalties to the Mauser company for ripping off the technology. The bottom line is this, Oswald squeezed the trigger and his buddy David Ferrie probably pulled a trigger on that day too. There is no vast government conspiracy just a bunch of drunk, homosexual, fascist, redneck pricks who hated “them damn Yankee” democrats and decided to take out the Prez….

    Rest in Peace Mr. President.

    1. I agree with your assertion about the rifle. However, where is the proof that Ferrie pulled a trigger? Ferrie’s notorious rant against Kennedy’s policies has gone a long way in convicting him in the mind of many researchers, but the evidentiary framework for a conspiracy involving him has failed to crystallize over the years. Ferrie was a very unhinged man, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he did at some point have a private conversation or two where he ranted about killing Kennedy to some friends. It might have even happened very much like Perry Russo and Oliver Stone portray it. Was that conversation where the conspiracy to kill Kennedy was hatched? Probably not. Placing Oswald in that conversation in the summer of ’63 is hard, putting Clay Shaw in there is even harder. We at least know that Oswald met Ferrie…photographic evidence and his erratic behavior after the assassination confirm this. But we have no evidence that they met again in ’63—no phone records, letters, messages, photographs, or films. Even if Ferrie knew Shaw, that doesn’t connect Shaw to Oswald, and it certainly doesn’t place them at that infamous assassination party. What about this Clay Bertrand cat Dean Andrews linked to Oswald after the assassination and the theory that Bertrand was Shaw? His story reeks of a windbag trying to find a place in history because he knew Oswald. Shaw? We know he was at least a CIA contact, but was he a assassination plotter? Like I said, it’s hard to put him where he needs to be to make that story jive. I find it difficult to sort this out because frankly, I find Shaw charming as a person. He was an intelligent, cosmopolitan, and literate man, certainly no “redneck prick.” I can see why conspiracy theorists like using him as a villain because if he was a bad guy, he was Goldfinger or Doctor No—a sophisticated, determined, and charismatic socialite hiding their true evil with wit and glamor. Most likely, he was just a nice old retired gay bachelor who liked writing plays.

    2. Silliness! The Hughes film and the Dillard photos never show a single rifle barrel sticking out of any window of the depository. No picture has ever surfaced proving shooters in business up there. Hughes shows the sixth floor after the limo is on Elm St. Anyone shooting from there should be seen taking aim downward and would obviously show up the way Williams and Jarman do on the fifth floor in the Dillard photo.

  7. The rifle pictured above is a 7.65 German Mauser. Two rifles were found that day, the other one is a mannlicher-carcano. A newsman took pictures of both rifles. the first one they found was the mauser and the second one they found was the mannlicher-carcano. Later when Oswald was arrested the Mauser disappeared. Roger Craig and the others were correct when they identified the first rifle as a Mauser. In both pictures it is the same DPD officer holding the rifles. Is this a smoking gun or not. Let me know if you can’t find the other picture and i’ll get you the website. Jesus Molinar

    1. I went down to the sporting good store yesterday and picked up on old Mauser they were selling. I inspected it thoroughly, it was not the same rifle depicted in any of these photographs. Please refrain from posting documented untruths.

  8. You have three rifles pictured above, the first one is a Mauser, the second one is a Carcano,and the third one being held by DPD officer is a Mauser. You can see the picture was taken in the Texas School Book Depository. Jesus Molinar

    1. As I stated before, after handling and inspecting an actual Mauser, I have deduced your assertion to be patently false.

    1. Once again this is untrue. I just handled a Mauser yesterday, IT IS NOT THIS GUN. Politely refrain from stating untruths.

  9. McAdams-
    *Yawn*… So, it isn’t possible that the rifle Craig spoke of was a second Mauser in addition to the one on the 6th floor? Or it isn’t possible that this is the Mauser that they “re-found?” It MUST be that Crzig “changed his story.”

    It can’t be that there is absolutely no context in the article for one Mauser found vs. the Mauser seen in MANY TSBD photos (e.g. one of the photos shows Craig eying the Mauser as it is being perused) or that the reporter obviously hand’t performed adequate research to ask Craig about the rifle he saw that was NOT a Mannlicher-Carcano.

    No,no. It MUST be that Craig changed his story…. just quit.

    Johnny-
    How incredibly short-sighted. Sure the in the faction of people who killed JFK “rednecks” existed. But to claim LHO was a “drunk, homosexual, fascist, redneck prick” or any one of those is patently ridiculous. Wake up.

    1. Your claim of photos of a Mauser is close to bizarre.

      The House Select Committee took up this issue, and gathered a large number of photos (including the Alyea footage) and determined the rifle in all the photos was a Mauser.

      Check HSCA Volume 6.

  10. well i take issue withanyone who says thatr Weizman , boone..or whoever else discovered the rife and claimed it was a mauser..All iof them according to a picture taken thar day sows them in a semi circle with the Mauser withinn a few feet of their face..I believe that Roger Craig was an honest man that got caught up in something that he did not have the ability to comprehend nor carry..Remember this it was Craigs sworn testimony that he saw Oswald getting into that Station wagon that was also eye witnessed by 3 other people whose sworn statement mirrored Rogers to the T..it was Craigs Boss at the Cop shop who said roger Craig was never in his office when he grilled Lee oswald..and that Craig was not being honest about his testimony that would have put the Lee Oswald agenda on the short shift of lies being formulated that day..It was perhaps a year or so after Rogers death that a picture was publishe showing Roger Craig sitting in his Boss office exactly as he claimed..with 4 -5 ete witnesses there seeming to be discussing the days events..My iopine Lee would have verified Roger Craigs account of this entire bizarre thing called what ever became of John kennedy anyway?

    1. “For all three to identify the rifle as 7.65 and a mauser indicates that they got more than a cursory glance at the weapon.”

      They, in fact, did not. They DIDN’T EVEN PICK IT UP. Excuse my insistence, but I have documented quite clearly that this assertion is untrue. The affidavits from that day, as well as the official testimony presented to the WC show that no one messed with the rifle until Lt. Day came and to inspect it. If someone saw a guy across the room that looked like a guy named Bob, but when they walked closer they found it was actually a guy named Tom that doesn’t mean that both Bob and Tom are in the room, it just means that the person was MISTAKEN IN WHAT THEY INITIALLY SAW. Find me this Mauser, show it to me. Show me how it was removed from the depository, by whom and what happened to it. I’m ready to be convinced, that’s why I wrote this article. Until then, the pro-Mauser contingent have nothing, zip, nada, not a thing, zero. Give me proof or GIVE IT UP.

      1. Shut. The. F**k. Up. All your posturing, all the bs, show me this, do that, give me proof, authoritarian posturing. All the abject lies you toss into your, no one knows except the people who stood the most to gain blather concerning who did what and how on the 6th floor… You are, whether you act so knowingly or not, the quintessential asset. You act as if people here haven’t poured over this event from beginning to end. You act as if people here haven’t a clue as to how the media acts to coerce, cajole and connive to force a populace to form the consensus for which they and their masters wish – even if the consensus is against the best interest of the target audience. You act as if there aren’t thousands of examples of open conspiracies perpetrated by the very type of people who stood on the 6th floor and began to contrive a story to fit a pre-ordained scenario. You act as if these people, though in positions of so-called authority, are intelligent, rather than 1920s and 1930s-born ignorant, witless fools; people who, for all their bluster, actually bought the fairy tale that Russia would nuke us at a moment’s notice – not just drop atomic bombs on the U.S., but be the initiators of mutual annihilation of every human on Earth; people so ignorant that they viewed people of “color” (as if they were devoid of such) as sub-human; people so ignorant that they needed to kill witnesses, impugn the just, who, 52 years later, still need people like you to cosign their stupidity and shoddy performances in order to further the, “LHO did it,” fairy tale.

        Just go away. Stay away. Have a Coke and a smile… and make sure you keep your distance from people who did and do understand the machinations behind, of, and after Dealey Plaza, 11.22.1963.

  11. Three experienced law enforcement officers identified the rifle as a 7.65 german mauser. Two of them filed reports the next day, the 23rd with this identification in writing. For all three to identify the rifle as 7.65 and a mauser indicates that they got more than a cursory glance at the weapon. Moreover, Criag had previosly been named Officer Of The Year. Weitzman had an Engineering Degree from The Univ. of Texas and had worked part time in the family sporting goods business for twenty years, selling firearms! For him to misidentify a weapon such as this in a case such as this is utterly preposterous. According to several researchers-the most recent being Philip Nelson-there was a tremendous amount of pressure put on these officers to change their story. Weitzman and Boone did but Craig never waivered. Of course, he paid a high price. Also, it seems a little strange that every witness who changes their story or testimony did so to conform to the Oswald alone scenario.

  12. D.K. Wilson,

    It’s difficult to know what your argument is, since it lacks coherence.

    Craig was describing (in the 1974 interview) finding a rifle on the 6th floor, which Craig said had the inscription “7.65 Mauser” on it. But in the 1968 interview he said nothing about finding any Mauser on the 6th floor. He said he heard one was found on the roof.

    Alyea was on the 6th floor, described the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and produced newsreel footage of the recovery. His footage shows a Mannlicher-Carcano.

    Of course, Craig lied about many other things:

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/craig.htm

    1. McAdams-
      My “argument” did not “lack coherence.” In fact, it is not an argument at all. I brought varied points to your attention that refute your claims. The quickness with which you resort to personal attacks through attempting to recontextualize what I wrote, is telling.

      It is equally telling that you cherry-picked your response to dodge the basic issue of LHO and his, according to you and yours in the absurd Lone Gunman community, Herculean and altogether otherworldly effort to shoot President Kennedy with a rifle that required a shim for its scope to even be workable (but I suppose you’ll point to some other b.s. to “refute” that fact), use a MEDIUM-caliber rifle – NOT high-powered as you and yours have misrepresented – to shoot a bullet that careens through two men and cause seven wounds, run through a maze of boxes – Oswald was said to move 25 boxes! – kitty-corner across the 6th floor, replant the gun amongst other boxes, run to the 6th floor steps, run down those steps and by two witnesses without being seen to the second floor, get a Coke out of a machine, and appear calm and not at all out of breath to a police officer seconds later.

      And these facts EXCLUDE Tom Dillard’s photo which clearly shows a man in the “Oswald window” AFTER the assassination! (Since we also have photographs taken by Military Intelligence employee James Powell and Dallas photographer Jim Murray, we can corroborate the time Dillard took his photo, narrowing it to no more than slightly one minute after the shooting).

      This very basic just-post-assassination understanding of facts involved with Oswald’s purported movements would eliminate him as an assassin to anyone but the most asinine of people – unless, of course, they are paid to disinform the general public about the assassination of the 35th President.

      Now, since you utterly failed to address anything about LHO from my previous comment and surely will attempt more obfuscation of the aforementioned paragraphs and the understanding of what LHO MUST have done, but could not have possible done immediately after the assassination to be the lone gunman, I will move onto Roger Craig.

      I read your personal attack of Craig and find it repulsive. According to you former Dallas police officer Roger Craig either became delusional post-assassination or saw what he thought was a way to make money beyond his wildest dreams by lying about everything he alleged himself to have seen post-assassination and then nearly killing himself in an attempt to garner sympathy from the public. All of which, in your description of Craig, was meant to obscure the facts of the assassination as seen by the upstanding members of the Warren Commission, Rockefeller Commission. et al., and intrepid truth-seekers like yourself and Gerald Posner.

      In layman’s parlance: fool, give me a break! Take that crap you spew, carry it elsewhere, and drop it where you think someone is stupid enough to believe in your fantasies. If you don’t know what law enforcement is capable of – and that extends up the food chain to the Justice Dept. Congress, intelligence agencies, and their lackeys in various news mediums – to protect themselves and their altogether heinous acts, you must live on another planet.

      And if you truly believe Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK all by his lonesome, you a bigger fool than I or anyone else could ever imagine.

      I’m done with this nonsense…. onto more pertinent issues, like who actually pulls your strings, McAdams.

      1. This time you substitute evasion for incoherence.

        The facts are these:

        1. Craig claimed to have witnessed the recovery of the rifle on the 6th floor.

        2. He claimed to have seen the inscription “7.65 Mauser” on the rifle.

        3. Tom Alyea was photographing the scene, and his 16 mm. film shows a Mannlicher-Carcano being recovered.

        4. In 1968, when asked about a “Mauser,” Craig said nothing about the rifle recovered on the 6th floor being a Mauser, but rather said he had heard that one was recovered on the roof.

        QED.

  13. Your personal attacks and your attempt to tell me my thought process is faulty tells me all I need to know about you McAdams. Illogic gets you no where. Vitriol gets you no where.

    In fact, I find your attacks combined with you refusal to address facts stated in my and others’ comments regarding the issues put before you —— offensive.

    But more, you are pitiful. Go away. Have a coke and a smile.

  14. After reading the arguments above, I have realized a new perspective: The rifle would have been THROWN across the room to fall between boxes on the other side. This is the only way to put it there quickly.

    Here is my new thought: this would explain why the scope was misaligned.

    It makes sense now. The fact that the scope was misaligned makes it more likely that the rifle was thrown, landed hard, and knocked out of alignment. It seems LESS likely that any rifle owner would leave a scope unaligned, unless they never touched the rifle or did not know what they were doing.

    This makes it MORE likely to me now that Oswald DID have that rifle at the window and DID throw it to hide it quickly. Somehow this makes the mis-alignment of the scope MORE damning of Oswald, instead of helping his case as I previously thought. Very interesting.

    1. That is a fascinating assessment, difficult to prove conclusively but it makes a lot of sense. I was just in the Depository last month, and they have the books stacked in the same position they were allegedly in when the rifle was discovered by DPD, and I was surprised at how how the books were stacked. If Oswald indeed tossed them over the stack into the position that Wietzman and Boone found it, then it very well might have conked the scope off. Anyone interested in doing a test of this? I want to get a Manliccher Carcano for my collection , but they’re a little hard to hunt down.

  15. This same person, John McAdams, has also attacked me –which I consider a badge of honor– and for which he will have to face God for what he has done. There are several fine books that tell you all you need to know about the case:
    1) JFK and the Unspeakable–Why He Died and Why it Matters
    2) Doug Horne’s Inside the ARRB.
    3) Me & Lee: How I came to Know,Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald.

    Horne’s book offers incontrovertible evidence showing how Kennedy’s autopsy photos and even the doctors’ reports, were mishandled /faked. Note that McAdams claimed in his website that the Parkland doctors probably didn’t have time to observe the back of Kennedy’s head–that they were too busy trying to save his life! (!)of course they had to observe those back-of the-head wounds in order to try to decide what they had to do to save his life. I recommend Me & Lee as a witness who personally knew this brave man (see meandlee or Amazon.com)–and offer it as the third essential book in the series of four recommended books I believe everyone should have to understand the case. There is also the book by Philip (4):
    LBJ: The Mastermind of jfk’s Assassination by Phillip F Nelson.

    You might want others to also see the YouTube videos by Gil Jesus and by Vincent Palamara that fill in many blanks. Six Youtube videos can be seen as filmed by Dr. James Fetzer, a judythbaker.blogspot.com and at http://www.lee-harvey-oswald.com, as well as six videos available at lola4jvb4lho at YouTube.

    Thank you for your astute and competent defense of Lee Harvey Oswald in the matter of Roger Craig’s courageous witness. Thank God you are well able to refute such outrageous insinuations against that good man, officer Craig. I have obtained information from his nephew, Jerry Craig, that casts serious doubt even upon the fact of his uncle’s so-called suicide. I have also observed that the angle of the shot into Craig’s chest was inconsistent with the effort necessary to raise the rifle to that height, as Craig’s blood alcohol level at that time was tested at a % that would have obviated any ability to lift any object, let alone a rifle. There is a high possibility that the alcohol blood level as tested was jacked up artificially–a case of forensic overkill, seems to me.
    We all seek justice in this case, for both Kennedy and the witnesses (including myself) who have suffered for speaking out, and we who grieve over what was done to Kennedy–a man Lee admired –should not rest until everyone knows the truth.
    Please do watch:

    sincerely, Judyth Vary Baker
    author, Me & Lee: How I came to Know,Love and Lose lee Harvey Oswald

  16. Assassination Agnostic? You mean to tell me that there is someone else out there that has the intellectual courage & honesty to admit he doesn’t know!? I came here in search of evidence of another rifle to close an argument with others on youtube who scream “troll” because I said we don’t know who killed Kennedy for certain…This is refreshing.

  17. Assassin James Files used a Fireball and not a Mauser, see http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com.

    The three tramps are Charles Harrelson, a CIA-connected hitman, Chauncey Holt a CIA-connected forger and Mr. Christ, a CIA-connected anti-Castro Cuban exiles fighter, and all three of them are on photo with CIA general Ed Lansdale right in front of the Texas schoolbook depository.
    Policemen documented that there were more “tramps” in the train on the parking lot behind Dealey Plaza.

    Here you see more familiar faces of anti-Castro fighters photographed on Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/FFiDP-2/

    Captain Fritz did not tape nor document his interrogations of Lee H. Oswald.

    This tells it all!

  18. Why anybody still talks to John McAdams is a total mystery to me. The guy clearly has an agenda. He presents assumptions as facts, constantly misrepresents the facts and refuses to enter into any kind of debate when confronted with real facts and evidence that crush his fairytales. As soon as I see his name anywhere I throw up.

  19. Well, here’s another wrench to throw into the works. If you examine closely the A.Hidell Klein’s order form you’ll realize that the rifle he ordered was not the 40.2″ Mannlicher-Carcanno rifle allegedly found on the 6th floor of the depository. He ordered a 36″ MC with scope, which the 40.2″ rifle did not come with. The model numbers are different. What makes this so significant is that the 40.2″ rifle when disassembled, has a 34″ barrel. But the two eyewitnesses who testified to the WC about the Oswald curtain rods stated unreservedly that they were about 27″ long and despite repeated attempts by the questioners to change their story, the refused. Ergo, the curtain rods could not have been the disassembled MC rifle found on the 6th floor.
    Apparently, in their haste to implicate Oswald, the people who substituted the rifles didn’t know about the two different sizes available. They tried to frame him with the WRONG SIZE RIFLE.! That is enough to acquit him in court, right there.

  20. There was no conspiracy involved in the assassination of JFK. If you look at the above photo and the video of the rifle when it was found it is unmistakably a Mannlicher Carcano. Not a 7.65 German Mauser.

  21. Some nice comments, and some well off-beaten I would add that if the time of shooting of the film and the discovery of the rifle were later, and not of the official story; it sure might open things up a bit.

    http://web.newsguy.com/mcclung/alyea.html

    It also has been found that the original finding of the rifle that was at least part of the Alyea film could not have been part of a Rifle Toss. I recommend, The Girl On The Stairs, by Ernest. Lt. Day makes commentary to clarify and to make the toss theory, impossible.

    CJ

  22. Wait a minute here. All of this Mauser–Carcano argument leads nowhere since ALL bullet fragments recovered that day were matched CONCLUSIVELY to Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano. Even if a Mauser WERE found (and there is no evidence one ever was) then why didn’t the bullets recovered from the gurney at Parkland or in limousine match a Mauser? Find the bullet fragments, match them to a weapon and you have the murder weapon…end of issue. Boone clearly stated he was giving his initial impression of what the rifle was. He never handled it, he never inspected it. he simply thought it looked like a Mauser and made the initial mistake of identifying it as a Mauser. Welcome to the real world. People makes mistakes. Please keep in mind that when Oswald was shot he was identified as Lee Henry Oswald. Are we to then believe that there were TWO people shot i nthe basement of the Dallas police station? And also remember that it was initially reported that President Johnson was shot in the arm or that he suffered a heart attack–neither of which were true. In the moments after a major news event there are dozens of mistakes made by humans attempting to make sense of a traumatic and unexpected series of events.

    1. Yes, initial reports said as much, but we all know how shaky initial reports can be in the news industry. Balloon Boy anyone? The fact of the matter is that the Dallas Police probably didn’t have a lot of experience with this obscure, foreign weapon and couldn’t quickly identify it. Not as exciting a story as the DPD throwing sneaking Mausers out of the building though. “Hey Officer, whatchya got there?” “Curtain rods son.”

  23. As I’ve written previously on this toic…it leads nowhere. Not only is the Mauser totally illogical it doesn’t have any evidentiary support.
    1. ALL identifiable bullets and fragments thereof matched a Mannlicher-Carcano–NOT a Mauser.
    2. The alleged “real assassins” (that used the Mauser) would have to believe that after the assassination the REAL bullets from their weapon (the Mauser) would be found either in the bodies of the victims or in the limousine and therefore these bullets would imstantly exonerate Oswald as the assassin since Oswald was NEVEr known to have purchased, handled, or owned a Mauser. So how could USING a Mauser and PLANTING a Mannlicher-Carcano implicate Oswald in any way?
    3. No police officer has EVER come forward and talked of finding a Mauser…not one. The inttial reports were simply cases of mistaken identities.

    This Mauser claim HAS to represent the lowest of the barrell on the part of the conspiracy cult to fabricate an issue out of an honest mistake. But when given close scrutiny….it leads nowhere.

    1. Roger Craig was an officer. He came forward. Officer Buddy Walthers also stated the gun was a Mauser, but he was shot to death not too long after talking to a reporter about it. That makes two Dallas officers that had come forward.

  24. Well obviously you haven’t followed the ARRB and its release of documents:
    The Assassinations Record Review Board (ARRB) in 1995 uncovered an FBI Field Office Dallas (89-43-1A-122) envelope. It was dated 12/2/63 and detailed the contents (since missing) of a 7.65mm shell found in Dealey Plaza after the assassination. This recovered evidence was unknown until the ARRB uncovered it. Unfortunately, it did not contain the 7.65mm shell and the outside of the envelope listed is as having no value and was destroyed.

    So there is evidence of a 7.65 Mauser being fired that day.

    1. I have followed the release of these documents. The envelope was empty. What kind of conspirator would get rid of the bullet but not the envelope? The non-existent kind.

  25. It is difficult to read through the comments above without wincing. John F. Kennedy has become a mythical figure. Kennedy has come to embody whatever each of the writers on this topic imagine him to be.

    I am astonished at the lack of maturity of the people on this page. You cannot trust eyewitness testimony. You cannot trust people’s veracity. It doesn’t matter even why. Experience should have taught everyone on this page that eyewitness testimony needs to be corroborated by other evidence. People might recall that there was several years ago a situation where people on death row or otherwise in prison were found innocent of crimes like murder and rape due to DNA evidence. They might also recall that in many of the cases that appeared in the public discourse that many of these prisoners had been convicted on eyewitness testimony and that further those witnesses in many cases refused to believe that hey had made mistakes.

    By going to these extreme lengths in order to impugn the evidence the people on this page end up creating a maze of intricate detail that is rather artful to the say the least.

    I am rather baffled because the tone of many of these posts is indignant and angry. Why the strength of feeling? How do you know what happened? You weren’t there and the only way you can get a picture of what happened is by studying the testimony of a lot of different people, none of whom have or have had, or had superhuman powers of observation.

    People make mistakes.

    1. John Smith – the holocaust story relies on a handful of eye witness testimony, would you question the reliability for such a huge claim?

  26. Truly hilarious reading many of the conspiracy posts here. Anyone viewing the newsreel of the finding of the rifle can see it is a Carcano. The bullet (C.E. 399) recovered was a 6.5mm Carcano bullet, and that bullet, along with the bullet fragments recovered, were tested by neutron analysis and matched to bullets from Western Cartridge Company–the same type ammunition used by Oswald. No bullets or fragments recovered have ever been matched to any Mauser ammunition. The Mauser story is a red herring.

    Finally, the bullet recovered (C.E. 399) is missing approximately 2 grains of its lead core, and approximately 2 grains of lead were found in the bodies of Kennedy and Connally. So the “conspirators” had to know, in advance, that the bullet that struck both Kennedy and Connally, would leave traces of lead but not traces of copper. Moreover, they would have been required to find a way to introduce into two bodies bullet fragments, from a Carcano bullet not a Mauser bullet, that further matched Oswald’s Western Cartridge Company ammunition made for 6.5 mm Carcano rifles.

  27. @ John Smith: Mythical my behind. People began researching the JFK assassination before 1963 ended. The discussions here are but an extension of a 50 year argument. On one side you have people upholding the words of some of the most heinous liars and crooks on the planet, on the other side you have people who refuse to get fooled again. This has nothing at all to do with “mistakes.” It has everything to do with a country that, today, is perilously close to imploding; 11.22.63 as the beginning date/event taking us where we are today,

  28. Officer Weitzman stated the weapon was so well hidden under boxes of books that the officers stumbled over it many times before they found it.

    Weitzman who was recognised as an an authority on weapons and operated a sporting goods store was asked by Chief Fritz the make of the rifle. Weitzman described it as as a 7.65 Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Craig recalled the word “Mauser” inscribed in the metal of the gun. Deputy Sheriff Boone executed a sworn affidavit in which he described the rifle as a Mauser.

    As late as midnight of November 22, Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade told the media that the weapon found was a Mauser.

    A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor. When the policemen reached the ground, a high ranking officer held the rifle high for everyone to see. This rifle had no sight mounted on it. It could not have been either the Carcano or the Mauser, both of which had sights.

  29. Actually, if you go back and listen to the media footage carefully, the “found rifle” was first described as Japanese made (this claim was made only once, but was made first). Very soon afterward, it was described as German made (this claim was made frequently). Then it finally was described as Italian made (this claim is made in “history” books). Anyone in 1963 would be very aware what these nations have in common.

  30. Craig couldn’t have seen a Mauser with 7.65 stamped on the barrel…The Argintine modello model didn’t have any caliber stamped on the barrel. And if the scope was a side mount, it would have partially or entirely covered up the Mauser logo…..

  31. Every detailed account of the shots indicate that the last two were almost on top of each other. One secret service agent said that the space between the two final shots was just like the sound of a sonic boom. Ever heard a sonic boom? Go to YouTube. It’s two sounds in quick succession – BOOM BOOM! Oswald could never have done that with that rifle.

  32. There should have been no long-term disagreement over the rifle because the Mannlicher-Carcano that is currently in the National Archives and claimed to be the murder weapon has “MADE IN ITALY” and “CAL 6.5” clearly engraved on the barrel. A CIA document released through the Freedom of Information Act and dated November 25, 1963 states “The description of a “Mannlicher Carcano” rifle in the Italian and foreign press is in error” and proceeds to identify a different rifle with a different caliber than is currently claimed. There are three lines of evidence proving that the gun found was in fact a Mauser: The sworn affidavit signed by Seymore Weitzman on Nov 23rd, the consistent testimony of Roger Craig, and the Nov 25th CIA document I just mentioned. Additional circumstantial evidence of confusion and tampering of evidence comes from a series of researchers who have compared the photographs of the rifle. The gun was photographed independently by first the Dallas Police Department, then by the FBI, and finally by the National Archives. All three photos are supposed to be of the same gun, and yet when the photos are lined up or laid over each other in a transparency they are clearly three different though similar rifles. Reports by the Secret Service, the FBI, and the CIA in the first two weeks after the assassination all give conflicting information as to what the make, model, and caliber of the rifle was. There was no agreement. They couldn’t settle on what it was. If it was a cut and dry case of a Mannlicher-Carcano “MADE IN ITALY” with a caliber of 6.5mm then the FBI would have made the identification official within hours or certainly a couple of days after the assassination, That even after two weeks nobody at the various agencies came to agreement upon the make, model, and caliber of the rifle strongly suggests that something fishy was and still is going on here, and the matter definitely needs to be thoroughly investigated.

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